New Yahoo Group for ARRL Life Members:
Garland Meredith (K5VY)
on
July 14, 2008
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New Yahoo Group for ARRL Life Members:
Veteran Amateur Radio Operator Garland Meredith, K5VY, has started a new Yahoo Group
exclusively for Life Members of the ARRL (American Radio Relay League)... Meredith hopes to
encourage ARRL Life Members to join this group and exchange ideas and thoughts about Ham
Radio in general and the ARRL specifically. Life Members are generally thought of as an elite
group who are serious about the hobby, and who support the ARRL with their life Membership
and activities.... The group may be contacted through the Yahoo groups directory.
ARRL_life_members
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New Yahoo Group for ARRL Life Members:
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by KE4MOB on July 15, 2008
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"Life Members are generally thought of as an elite group who are serious about the hobby."
Why does this tick me off??? Hmmm...
Oh yeah. It's the same "we're better than you" ARRL attitude that we've come to know and despise.
Contributing to the ARRL DOES NOT make one a better ham.
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RE: New Yahoo Group for ARRL Life Members:
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by N4CQR on July 15, 2008
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Well, Steve, I agree. No problem with the group. No problem with ARRL....
The add however sounds somewhat condescending. Snobbish actually.
73 Craig
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New Yahoo Group for ARRL Life Members:
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by K5EST on July 15, 2008
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Sure not many members of the elite
arrl life'ers group. The group website
shows 3 members.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARRL_life_members/?v=1&t=search&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=group&slk=1>
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RE: New Yahoo Group for ARRL Life Members:
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by SPARKY7 on July 15, 2008
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I agree with Steve that contributing to the ARRL does not make one a better ham. It would be obsurd to think that it would. I'm not in total agreement, however, that the ARRL is a bunch of elitists. Just my opinion.
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New Yahoo Group for ARRL Life Members:
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by VK6AV on July 15, 2008
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The ARRL is just as diverse as the ham population. Elitist? This is a political word that means nothing when you consider the facts. I am an ARRL life member. I did it because I support the ARRL as the only credible representative of ham radio operators in the U.S.A. (and I am betting I will live a long time so it is cheaper). I am not sure I actually know any other Life Members so I don't hang out with them. Excuse me, I need to get back to 20 meters ...
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New ARRL forum for ARRL Life Members on Yahoo?
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by K4RAF on July 17, 2008
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Harris,
With all due respect to you, we here are living under many ill-conceived FCC policies that were pushed forth by the ARRL.
Incentive Licensing no longer has an incentive, because the ARRL sought to produce manual$ & not knowledgeable operators. They changed the laws & license structure to endlessly print "updated" manuals with said rule changes, while they drive the VEC testing. Who said you can't make $$$ off ham radio?
That is just 1 of the issues that prevents the ARRL from ever representing more than 15% of licensees, yet they claim to represent the majority view. All the while preventing publicly expressed 'member' views, on any ARRL domain, to counter their own intere$t$...
The diversity is in the 80% who don't 'belong' but have to operate under the snobbery of The ARRL assuming they speak for me. They don't... Sorry Lifers!
I have to wonder how many Life "members" would want out, if they could get out... It is a cult you can't check out of?
Raf
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RE: New ARRL forum for ARRL Life Members on Yahoo?
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by STRAIGHTKEY on July 18, 2008
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"With all due respect to you, we here are living under many ill-conceived FCC policies that were pushed forth by the ARRL."
That's how pathetic we've gotten in the US today - blame everything on someone else while living off the benefits they give. Boo hoo, ARRL did this ARRL did that. Meanwhile, ARRL has done more for ham radio than the ARRL haters will ever admit.
"Incentive Licensing no longer has an incentive, because the ARRL sought to produce manual$ & not knowledgeable operators. They changed the laws & license structure to endlessly print "updated" manuals with said rule changes, while they drive the VEC testing. Who said you can't make $$$ off ham radio?"
Where's all this profit? I have yet to see any of you ARRL haters prove the profit claims. It's just a bunch of bull.
"That is just 1 of the issues that prevents the ARRL from ever representing more than 15% of licensees, yet they claim to represent the majority view."
Actually it's about 21%. Whatever the percentage, it's more hams than you ARRL haters. You ARRL haters have no organization, no leadership, no representation, no influence, and no majority.
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New Yahoo Group for ARRL Life Members:
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by KE4ZHN on July 20, 2008
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I think RAF hit the nail right on the head. Hey straightkey, you might want to wipe that brown stuff off your nose, its starting to stink and draw flies. Must be David Sumner or Ed Hare posting under a phony name. lol.
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RE: New Yahoo Group for ARRL Life Members:
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by STRAIGHTKEY on July 20, 2008
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"I think RAF hit the nail right on the head"
He can't even get the math right for his membership percentage claim. A third grader could figure that out, but apparently he can't.
ARRL haters - they'll benefit from the ARRL but not lift a finger other than typing garbage in a forum.
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RE: New ARRL forum for ARRL Life Members on Yahoo?
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by KE4MOB on July 20, 2008
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"Meanwhile, ARRL has done more for ham radio than the ARRL haters will ever admit."
I'll admit..in the past..prior to about 1997, the ARRL was a great organization. It started to wane with the appointing of a "development officer" in the late '90s. Now I view it as just a glorified ponzi scheme run under an umbrella of "funds" and "foundations".
"Where's all this profit? I have yet to see any of you ARRL haters prove the profit claims. It's just a bunch of bull."
Actually, no it's not. I suggest you start reading the reports of the Administration & Finance committee. You see, a lot of the money the ARRL brings in never gets seen in the Profit and Loss side of the ledger. It gets whisked away and placed in long term investments...interest and dividend producing investments. The ARRL over the past 10 years has slowly changed from an organization that solely relied on membership dollars into one that generates money through investments and contributions to "funds" that pretty much allow carte-blanche discretion as to disbursement. Pretty smart actually. But at the same time, it really means the ARRL is lessening its' ties with the membership year after year. At some point they won't need membership, as they'll be self sustaining.
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RE: New ARRL forum for ARRL Life Members on Yahoo?
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by STRAIGHTKEY on July 21, 2008
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>"Where's all this profit? I have yet to see any of you ARRL haters prove the profit claims. It's just a bunch of bull."
>Actually, no it's not. I suggest you start reading the reports of the Administration & Finance committee. You see, a lot of the money the ARRL brings in never gets seen in the Profit and Loss side of the ledger.
Show me where this money is that doesn't get on the balance sheet with quotes from the committee reports, please.
"It gets whisked away and placed in long term investments...interest and dividend producing investments."
That's mainly the life membership funds. How would you propose funding the services for those members, considering inflation and many may be alive for another 60 years? Also, there is going to be quite a drop in ham numbers in the next decades, presumably many of these people are year-to-year members. How do you support a fixed number of life members with declining year-to-year membership revenue?
Ignoring the life membership aspects of this, the ARRL tends to run close to break even or +/- $100K. What would you do with profits, leave them in a low interest bank account rather than putting it into an investment with a higher rate of return?
"The ARRL over the past 10 years has slowly changed from an organization that solely relied on membership dollars into one that generates money through investments and contributions to "funds" that pretty much allow carte-blanche discretion as to disbursement.
Pretty smart actually. But at the same time, it really means the ARRL is lessening its' ties with the membership year after year. At some point they won't need membership, as they'll be self sustaining."
Last year investment income was $300K, membership income was $5M. Administrative costs were $1.6M. I would say they're quite far from not needing membership. And considering the upcoming drop in the number of hams, it's quite wise to have a nest egg.
Where in the rules is the "carte blanche" for distribution provision you claim? Investment income isn't any different than membership revenue, it's just a different line on the balance sheet.
If you read the reports, they actually run ARRL like a real business and they're looking into the future. This isn't like any other organization in amateur radio where the major concerns are what color tee shirts should be or who's making barbecue at Field Day.
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RE: New ARRL forum for ARRL Life Members on Yahoo?
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by KE4MOB on July 22, 2008
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"Show me where this money is that doesn't get on the balance sheet with quotes from the committee reports, please."
Oh, you're right, it does come into the balance sheet. It comes in under such headings as "Spectrum Defense", gets rolled over into the general fund, and then rolled out to investments.
"How would you propose funding the services for those members, considering inflation and many may be alive for another 60 years? Also, there is going to be quite a drop in ham numbers in the next decades, presumably many of these people are year-to-year members. How do you support a fixed number of life members with declining year-to-year membership revenue?"
Bullcrap. I would bet money that the average Life Member DOESN'T have 60 years left..more like 20. I would also bet that as general membership declines due to lack of interest in ham radio, the number of Lifers declines even more precipitously. You can't cheat death.
"What would you do with profits, leave them in a low interest bank account rather than putting it into an investment with a higher rate of return?"
I don't blame the ARRL for trying to make money. I just question the ARRLs stated motivation. The ARRL is out for what is good for the ARRL. If there is an issue that was good for ham radio, but bad for the ARRL the ARRL would either sit on its hands, or actively oppose the issue.
"Where in the rules is the "carte blanche" for distribution provision you claim?"
Where in the rules does it say that Spectrum Defense money only be used for Spectrum Defense, as it is advertised? And where is the accounting of how that money is spent??
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RE: New ARRL forum for ARRL Life Members on Yahoo?
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by STRAIGHTKEY on July 22, 2008
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>"Show me where this money is that doesn't get on the balance sheet with quotes from the committee reports, please."
>Oh, you're right, it does come into the balance sheet. It comes in under such headings as "Spectrum Defense", gets rolled over into the general fund, and then rolled out to investments.
OK, so you now agree the money does get on the P&L. Since you read the balance sheets, show me the Spectrum Defense "heading" and the money that came in and went out directly to investments.
>"How would you propose funding the services for those members, considering inflation and many may be alive for another 60 years? Also, there is going to be quite a drop in ham numbers in the next decades, presumably many of these people are year-to-year members. How do you support a fixed number of life members with declining year-to-year membership revenue?"
>Bullcrap. I would bet money that the average Life Member DOESN'T have 60 years left..more like 20. I would also bet that as general membership declines due to lack of interest in ham radio, the number of Lifers declines even more precipitously. You can't cheat death.
OK, let's go with 20 years, and apply it to something that is probably near and dear to you and me. Would you rather fill up your gas tank today with the $20 you had in 1988 or the $50 you have now? You seem to think that investment is evil. It's not, it's the fiscally responsible thing to do.
I'm glad you're not the ARRL CFO. Banking on the failure of your support base as part of your financial plan isn't too smart.
>"What would you do with profits, leave them in a low interest bank account rather than putting it into an investment with a higher rate of return?"
>I don't blame the ARRL for trying to make money. I just question the ARRLs stated motivation. The ARRL is out for what is good for the ARRL. If there is an issue that was good for ham radio, but bad for the ARRL the ARRL would either sit on its hands, or actively oppose the issue.
You're making a claim of what the ARRL *would* do, not what they have done. What are you basing your prediction on? Your logic is puzzling. If the ARRL is funded by radio amateurs who are into amateur radio, if something was good for amateur radio, it would follow that it would be good for the ARRL. If you can think of a scenario where this wouldn't be the case, please describe it to me.
Where is this "stated motivation" you refer to? And where is it said that ARRL is "trying to make money"? They tend to break even from year to year. You seem to be confusing investment income with profits.
>"Where in the rules is the "carte blanche" for distribution provision you claim?"
>Where in the rules does it say that Spectrum Defense money only be used for Spectrum Defense, as it is advertised?
You're answering a question with a question. You're making the accusation of potential wrongdoing, so the burden of proof is on you. And the mere lack of a specific rule to prevent misuse of funds isn't proof of misuse of funds.
Whether or not the exact use is spelled out in the rules, the ARRL is run by an executive board and an elected body of officials. I'm not sure how much more open you can get, other than perhaps having a voting system where every last expenditure is approved by members. That's not very practical, hence the reason there's an executive board and officials elected by the membership.
>And where is the accounting of how that money is spent??
You should be able to answer that question. You're the one who told me to read the committee reports. The ARRL is a non-profit organization that has to keep books in compliance with GAAP, so it's undoubtedly in there. Their annual reports are audited, there's a statement to that effect from the auditing firm that's included in the documentation. (You do read the annual reports, don't you???) So I would say that you could call the CFO and ask if you can see the books to answer that one. You can't accuse them of wrongdoing merely because the accounting isn't in front of you.
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