Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
Dan Hyman (K6KDK)
on
September 30, 2004
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I am emailing this letter to all Directors of the ARRL and to various other persons that may be concerned as I am.
It seems that someone at ARRL has decided to "shove the 135 event down our throats" in what is an abusive and out of band contest operating practice. I was informed by one of the Assistant Directors for ARRL that he was told that the ARRL is "encouraging" operation of its 135 contest on the WARC Bands and even 2-meter repeaters!
So far in just the first 24 hrs of this event I have personally observed the vigorous contest like activity over-riding weak signal DX on 17 meters and disrupting skeds and QSOs on 80 meters.
Responsible Contesting activity has a long history of observing the following points of order of a "gentlemen's agreement", and the 135 contest is violating all of the following:
1.) No operation on WARC Bands
2.) No operation on repeaters
3.) No operation past a 36hr period
4.) Participants will kindly respect existing QSOs, weak signal DX and other weak signal portions of the various bands.
5.) No disruption of long standing skeds and nets on 40 and 80 meters
In a phone conversation with a representative at ARRL I was told that ARRLs position is that the 135 event "is not a contest". This is pure hogwash. If it walks like a dog, barks like a dog and bites like a dog, then it is a dog! The 135 event has all the required trappings of any full blown contest, i.e. a structured awards for points scoring system, a formal structured exchange for the QSO, and rules for those who operate.
No doubt that the 135 event started out with a noble purpose, but it has seriously overstepped the bounds of responsible operating. There may be serious downstream problems as a result of a high visibility and powerful club like the ARRL going this route with the 135 event. What now is to stop ANY club or group of any size or purpose from polluting the WARC bands with similar contest like activity? The ARRL has now "set the precedent". Additionally, the violation of all the points of the "gentlemen's agreement" on contesting threatens all legitimate contest activity as the legitimate contest now gets tarred with the same brush from the backlash from the abusive 135 event activities.
Gentlemen, it's not too late! Please stop the WARC Band activity and 2-meter repeater activity immediately! Distribute a memo to your operators and inform them that there was a simple mistake in judgment made, and the honorable thing to do is cease immediately any "contest-like activity" in areas where it is not appropriate.
Sincerely,
Dan Hyman K6KDK
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by LNXAUTHOR on September 30, 2004
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- whoa! didn't realize this was happening on the WARC bands! (listen mostly during the day on 20M mobile)...
- i don't see a problem on 2M, but screwing around w/DX freqs would be a big "No-No" to me!
- the poster is right that this could lead to trouble down the road!
- shouldn't we know better than this?
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by NA4IT on September 30, 2004
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Try this one on for size...your ARRL dues are supposed to be partially used (or I believe should be used) to promote amateur radio...all the sudden, ARRL needs / gets a grant to promote it.
I believe the ARRL needs to sit down and regroup. They have become "special interest" minded. I.E. BPL fights, and forcing WinLink 2000 as "the" digital mode for ARES, etc.
Also, I do not think it is right that to be a Net Manager, Emergency Coordinator, or to hold other positions that you MUST be an ARRL member. I feel that is discrimination, period.
And QST is a JOKE! How about putting some projects in it that don't take a master's degree in engineering to figure out!
I am not happy with them.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4RAF on September 30, 2004
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The /135 fiasco is just the latest failure in a long string of events that prove the ARRL is stagnant.
In the quest to keep 70 paid employees, the ARRL will stop at nothing to pry loose change from the unknowing.
They claim to be the vanguard of "amateur radio's interest" but only 1/7th are allowed to be heard in matters that affect all 700,000. ARRL bandplans as FCC law? I don't think so. This is just another gentlemen's agreement put at risk by these schemers.
It is all about judgement & the ARRL has turned out to have the worst judgement, both in prudence & promotion.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4EQ on September 30, 2004
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I understand your position and concern, but I think you may be overreacting a bit to 135--hardly a contest in the vein of a CQWW or ARRL DX test. In light of the issues facing amateur radio today, it seems to me we should be supportive of anything that would encourage friendly activity on the bands, including the WARC bands.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N3HKN on September 30, 2004
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Why would the ARRL promote such practices as creating something and try to hide its true function? One possibility is that they believe that the best way to enliven Ham Radio is through competition. Millions watch people eat worms on TV as they compete for ego enriching and wallet enriching awards. The same is true of Ham Radio. Thousands of dollars are spent by people who strive to beat out another Ham for a coveted award. Little old QRP'r spends a few hundred at most. Rag chewers are usually satisfied with their old radio so long as it works well. And so on. Thus the market makers are contestors and the ARRL seeks to promote that group.
Competition is the engine of progress, or so many believe. Unfortunately, it brings out personalities that are not well suited for a "gentleman's hobby". This is born out in contest columns in QST & CQ as they berate the ego driven louts that will do anything to "win". While the interpretation by the ARRL of the market driver (contests) may be correct, the small percentage of people, who should be on the Apprentice, increases. They then discourage the non-contesting Ham from engaging in the hobby. Thus the real engine for the hobby is erroded as the non-contester has no "safe haven" for his/her activities.
Once again money is the driver and, if it is contesting that keeps Amateur Radio alive, we will see all sorts of goofy awards created. Created to appeal to anyone that wants bragging rights and the satisfaction that the four 192ft towers, with five operating positions, was a wise investment$$$$$
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by WA4DOU on September 30, 2004
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1/7th of the 700,000 amateurs are members of ARRL and they comprise the bulk of those to be "heard" representing amateur radio? So whats stopping you from being an ARRL member and being heard as well?
QST's technical articles have been geared to the level they are to suit the average reader. If you feel they are over your head, then its time for study or finding some entry level publications. Like the minimum wage, entry level wasn't meant to be a permanent position.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N4PIQ on September 30, 2004
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For me this is the straw that broke the camel's back.As
a long time member and supporter of ARRL, I will not renew my membership. I am tired of not being able to operate on 20 mtrs on most weekends because of contests,and now we have to put up with them on the WARC bands? Enough is enough.
Steve N4PIQ
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K0RGR on September 30, 2004
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The idea is to work 25 current or former ARRL elected officials or volunteers so you can get a nice certificate - how many of those can there be out there?
I have a hard time believing that this is in any way causing any kind of congestion anywhere that it matters at all. With the exception of last weekend's RTTY contest, there hasn't been enough QRM on HF or anyplace above 50 Mhz. to fill a thimble for the last year.
Any opportunity to bash the League will be leapt upon with glee.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W4TYU on September 30, 2004
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Aren't the sour grapes a bit late? The /xxx activity has been going on for at least ten years starting with /125. Why the windstorm about it now?
I do not recall any adverse comment on the previous celebrations.
Ole man JEAN
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N4GI on September 30, 2004
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Anti-contest trolling with a different twist!
<<3.) No operation past a 36hr period>>
When does the 36 hours begin? Does listening time count as operating time? What about band changes?
<<4.) Participants will kindly respect existing QSOs, weak signal DX and other weak signal portions of the various bands.>>
Where are the weak signal portions? I've heard some pretty strong signals everywhere at one time or another... How weak is "weak"? What if someone is so weak that I can't hear them? Would that still be considered a signal?
<<5.) No disruption of long standing skeds and nets on 40 and 80 meters>>
What length of time defines "long standing"? How am I supposed to know how long standing a net/sked is? Is there a list? Can non-long standing nets be disturbed? What about 20, 15, or 10 meter long standing nets?
73,
N4GI
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KB2CPW on September 30, 2004
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If someone can work the 135 event and turn numbers, win a place on a list or roll, then its a contest. This is nothing new to me.. I agree with the above posts in that the few weekends I am off and want to enjoy radio, it is often tarnished by contests and poor operators who wish to enjoy their aspect of the hobby while they destroy mine and many others.
Contest operators have truly earned their poor reputation for two reasons. One being the total disregard for those who do not wish to contest, trampling on their right to operate with some degree of enjoyment and for failing to police and disqualify those who do violate the gentlemans agreement and general courteous operating practices.
If the ARRL wants all of these contests to take place, how about appointing a panel of judges who monitor the bands and disqualify or remove points from the idiots that cant behave properly.
As mentioned, the 135 is promoted as a non contest but if it clogs up the bands and disrupts normal communications and scheds, maybe it shouldnt be allowed or tolerated.. Regards.. Richy N2ZD
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W8JI on September 30, 2004
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What the hell is the 135 event? Don't you think the article should have explained what it is?
Come on people, tell us what it is! Make a point that can be understood..
73 Tom
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N4ZOU on September 30, 2004
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The ARRL quit supporting so called gentlemen's agreements when they got the FCC to allow unattended robot stations 10 years ago. Robots do not listen to a frequency before transmitting. The owner (not to be confused with an operator) allows the robot to scan many frequencies on all bands. The robot is allowed to QRM ongoing QSO's with no fear of a notice or fine from the FCC. The owner of the robot considers the scanned frequencies to be the robots private property with no other use of that frequency permitted by any one or thing other than that originations use. Now the ARRL wants to expand this UN gentlemanly type of operation with 3 KHz wide Winlink 2000/Pactor III operations. Gentlemen's agreements get ignored when it comes to money and the ARRL is most definitely after the money! Sadly it really is too late to do anything about it. You can write or call all you like and you will be ignored even if you are an ARRL member. Simply put there are too many amateur radio "sheep" that simply follow along and pay their money and have no idea what is going on as long as they can collect there paper and wood that ends up in the trash after that final SK.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K0RFD on September 30, 2004
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People like Dan are going to bash the ARRL no matter what they do, but they should at least be factual.
The /135 event was nowhere near a contest. There was no "winner" -- it was purely a paper-chasing event. It was also a wonderful public relations event to honor the spirit of volunteerism among ARRL members who give up evenings and weekends to serve others. Everybody you heard signing "/135" was an elected or appointed volunteer, staff member, or life member. It was simply a way to put names on the thousands of nameless people who help make US amateur radio tick.
You can read the event announcement at http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/08/26/1/ and see for yourself about whether you are being "snowed" about the true nature of the event.
As far as the "contest" (not a contest) "spilling over" onto the WARC bands, it is perfectly legal to sign with an identifier after your callsign and in no way counter to any agreements about use of the WARC bands.
I collected my 25 stations in 2 evenings on 20 meters. It was easy because there are SO MANY people who give up their precious time to help other Hams. And that's what it is--Hams helping other Hams. As an ARRL volunteer examiner, I *never* look at my time commitment as helping ARRL. I look at it as a service to people wanting to get into or advance in Amateur Radio. Because that's what it is.
I may or may not send in for the certificate--right now I can use $5 more than another piece of paper on the wall. But it was fun to learn how many other people are out there serving other Hams below the radar, and gratifying to get a little recognition that most of us never ask for.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N8CP on September 30, 2004
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Along with your Ham license comes a crying towel, it looks like it is being put to good use.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by NY7Q on September 30, 2004
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I must agree that there was a lot of barging in on frequencies, talking over existing qsos, and very very rude operators signing with /135.....So those guys were part of the ARRL upper crust???? They sure sounded like drunk CB operators in most case to me. Just flat took over freqs regardless, in the name of ARRL....so much for leading by example...no wonder I despise the ARRL....
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by AD6WL on September 30, 2004
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This is not a contest so operation on the WARC bands and repeaters is allowed. There are no rules against operating more than 36 hours even for contests. I never heard of any band plan violations. Please give specifics on these violations: Time, Call, and Freq. Skeds and Nets don’t have priority or special operating privileges unless in an actual emergency.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K3UD on September 30, 2004
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The difference between operating events like the 135 event, lighthouse weekends, IOTA, Navy Ship weekends (etc) and "traditional"contests are being blurred.
There can be a ton of activity on 17 meters for the 135 but not a qso party. Both tie up the band to some extent. There can be a DXpedition setting up shop on 17 and destroying half the phone band for days, but a DX contest can not be held there.
What are the differences? Who would be sanctioned, by whom and what would they be, if an actual contest cranked up on 12 / 17 / and 30 meters?
Is there really any difference between working 135 Hiram Percy Maxim birthday stations in a weekend or 50 Navy Ships or the same amount of Islands.....than there is working 100 countries in a DX contest or 60 sections in the SS?
Maybe a 12 meter contest would bring that band to life.
What does a weekend operating event lead to? A certificate. What does winning the SS lead to? A certificate.
What is the real difference?
73
George
K3UD
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K1KID on September 30, 2004
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Good God, another opportunity to bash the ARRL. Doesn't everyone realize that without the ARRL there would likely be no ham radio at all. That about 100,000 hams carry the ball for the entire 700,000. I definately do not agree with everything the ARRL does, but I have input to my representative and I vote for my representatives. If I don't think he/she represents my interests, I vote for someone else the next time. I have the opportunity to change the system with input to my rep just as all other members do. Lets energize the system and get some more of the non members signed up to ARRL. ARRL does not operate in a vacuum and must be responsive to the majority of members. Volunteer to represent your region, get elected and make the changes you think necessary. Leaving the ARRL is NOT in your best interest. Throw away the crying towel and work to make the organization what you think it should be. The alternative is to be prepared to go to Washington yourself and fight the FCC. I would rather have the ARRL do it!
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KG6AMW on September 30, 2004
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This is not a good article. The writer is complaining about contesting spilling over to the WARC bands by a HPM/135. For you readers who don’t know what HPM/135 is, it’s on-the-air event to commemorate the 135th anniversary of the birth of the ARRL's co-founder and first president Hiram Percy Maxim. Unfortunately for the writer, HPM/135 ended at 2400 UTC on Sunday, September 12. So the question here is why did he write this. His facts are wrong and he declaring something a problem when its not. Either he has a misunderstanding of the issue (logic defect) or he is attempting to create straw man issue to denergrate the ARRL. Either way, not a great read.
KG6AMW
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by WB2WIK on September 30, 2004
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Hmph.
It's a bit late now, since the event is over.
However, when it was going on, I witnessed absolutely no disruption to anything, any more so than just more activity would create disruption. The /135 event surely wasn't anything like a contest, and I was very happy to see it perk up activity anywhere it did. So much so, that I wish every week there would be some sort of "event" to stimulate activity and get people using bands often considered dead.
Since the MUF's usually below 21 MHz during the times I can operate, I'd about given up on fifteen meters but the /135 event created some action that wouldn't have ordinarily been on 15. That was great!
And how can more activity on two meters, including repeaters, hurt anybody? Geesh.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K7VO on September 30, 2004
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Oh gee... another chance to bash the ARRL. Everyone let's join in the feeding frenzy, shall we? Errr... not me.
Oh, and the plea was for "gentlemen". I guess the author has no interest in YLs and XYLs who are hams. Yes, the assumption that ham==male is a pet peeve of mine. That's a great way not to convince me to do anything.
Yes, there were examples of rude operation from people involved in /135. I can show you rude operation each and every day of the week. DXers, contesters, people who "own" a frequency, etc... What else is new? Instead of writing a bash ARRL article how about an article pleading for courteous operation instead?
Funny, when I write an ARRL Director or talk to a Section Manager I always get a response and a promise to take my views into account. Why is that? Why don't the bashers feel they get the same?
Since when is trying to stop interference from BPL or trying to update emergency communications to meet the needs of the agencies we are supposed to serve a special interest? If keeping amateur radio alive and well in the 21st century is motivated by money, well... it's still something I want to see.
I guess I don't see a new catastrophe. I certainly don't see /135 as a contest. I most definitely agree with the author that there's been some really discourteous operation and operation that just plain isn't good amateur practice. Instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater let's all see what we can do to be more respectful of other hams on the band.
Oh, I'm pretty well flame proof today, so if attacking me is going to make you feel important then by all means, have at it. I've come to expect it.
73,
Caity
K7VO
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N5NW on September 30, 2004
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If the /135 event was a contest, then so is DXCC, IOTA, JOTA, ...
de N5NW (Marty)
Bellbrook, Ohio
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by WILLY on September 30, 2004
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by WA4DOU on September 30, 2004
"...
So whats stopping you from being an ARRL member and being heard as well? "
The cost perhaps?
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K5LXP on September 30, 2004
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I enjoyed the /135 event, as I do the lighthouse and museum ship events. Every one of my /135 contacts netted more than just a 5/9, 73. I got to meet a number of fellow league members and find out about their duties and experiences. I heard a few stations running contacts but it was nowhere near the mayhem you'd hear during a regular contest. I have no problem yielding my operating time for activities such as contests, there's plenty of opportunity to work the bands when there aren't contests going on. The trick is to have more to do in ham radio other than limiting yourself to a few bands or modes.
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KE4ZHN on September 30, 2004
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Frankly, Im sick and tired of the dictators up in Newington trying to ramrod their agenda down everyones throat whether they like it or not. Their motto seems to be "My way or the highway" and to hell with everyone else. I find it amazing that some will blindly follow them like cattle lead to slaughter when they are far and away in the minority. I will never support an organization who wont even listen to its own membership unless its in agreement with one of their lamebrained proposals.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KC8VWM on September 30, 2004
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"And how can more activity on two meters, including repeaters, hurt anybody? Geesh."
Agreed, 2 meters is dead as a doornail lately anyways. My HT in scan mode is like listening to code practice. All you hear is the repeater ID's.
I believe the purpose of this event is to further promote and encourage us to use the bands.
I fail to see how anything was "shoved down our throats."
If you wanted to participate, then by all means - participate. If you do not - then push the big button that says "power off" ...It's that simple.
There are no cattle being led to any proverbial slaughter houses here. You have a choice as to what level of participation you are willing (or not willing) to engage in.
If you don't like the ARRL, even that's a choice too. No one is forcing anyone to like anything.
If you don't want to support ARRL - then by all means -Don't.
Anyone who has a even the slightest idea and well rounded understanding of the many activities the ARRL has historically advocated for hams will probobly support them.
The ARRL represents it's supporters. If your not a member - your not heard.
If your not heard, you feel like you have been "ramroded" by ARRL interests simply because no one is representing your non-membership interests.
It's relatively simple to understand really.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N8QGC on September 30, 2004
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Geez,
Some of you guys need to lighten up. This disrupted hardly anything. I can't believe that such a minute and trivial thing would generate so much fuss. I think some folks need to "get a life."
I am a ARRL VEC so I was able to sign my station N8QGC/135 I tried for the only two nights that I was able to get on and called CQ on several bands and modes for 2 hours and no one answered me so it appears as though this event did not bother much. I got on to try to give out "a new one" to anyone looking for /135 stations. Personally I didn't care to collect the stations needed to get the certificate. I'm a DX'er and usually spend most of my time pursuing DX.
I think that this is just someone trying to bash the league and nothing more. I don't always agree with the ARRL but I firmly believe that we are better off with them then without them.
73 de John N8QGC
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K1MCN on September 30, 2004
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I for one enjoyed the 135 event. I do have one peeve about the whole thing though. That is a lot of the /135 stations were collecting 135’s more than handing them out. I realize that I am relatively new to ham radio but I did, notice that a lot of the /135 stations were tuning the bands looking for /135 stations. Which is all well and fine but a lot of the /135 stations were favoring the /135 call ins. It was easy for most of those stations to get their 100 but for the rest of us whom are just lowly ARRL members we had to work hard to get 25 or 50 which I didn’t even get to. I made it to 46 myself working 15 and 20 the only two bands my equipment worked on at the time.
It seems to me that the people who could use the /135 some were going out of their way to not hand them out and try to collect them. One that I did work said that he had 200 so he was just handing them out when I contacted him.
I think that the ARRL overall does a good job but the 135 event wasn’t handled correctly. Sure the stations able to sign /135 should be able to collect them but they should be handing them out as well and not be just trying to collect them.
It should have been run like any other contest on the contest only bands in my opinion. And it should have been run as a contest and at a time when other contest were not being run. There were several contests being run at the time there was a route 66 special event and over one weekend there was another contest being run.
All and all it was fun to work /135 stations but the whole “event” could have been better planned and coordinated.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K9NW on September 30, 2004
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To those who see fit to bash the ARRL at any opportunity, might I suggest you start your own national organization. There is no mandate that ARRL be the only national organization for US amateurs. Start another one. Put in the time, effort, money, etc. to build something that will represent you the way you feel you should be represented.
What's stopping you?
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K2WH on September 30, 2004
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It's time to realize guys that the ARRL is just a club with no authority to authorize anything, anywhere.
It's all voluntary. Too many hams look at the ARRL as the "AUTHORITY" on ham radio. They are not. I am and have always been an ARRL member and I support what the ARRL club does. So, your local repeater or HF group can do the same thing. Nothing special or out of place with this 135 contest. Make you own contest and stop whining.
K2WH
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N5IFH on September 30, 2004
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The ONLY rule in contesting is that there ARE NO RULES! Make that contact no matter what the cost. Dress it up any way you want to, the man's right, a dog is still a dog!
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4JSR on September 30, 2004
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Dan, K6KDK, is a member of ARRL and as such is entitled to praise, complain or whatever. He is doing
from within and not complaining that the League does
not represent him, so he will not join. The type of people who use the "I won't join because they don't
represent me" are the same people who would go into a hardware store for a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk. I happen to disagree with Dan's opinion on this
issue of /135 participants' conduct. I never heard
anything disruptive concerning the paper chase.
Heck, K0RGR and I even agree on this issue! WOW! :-)
Caity, Steve Katz, Charles, George and many more prolific contributors to this web site and wonderful
Elmers, Elmira in Caity's case(?), agree that we need more on the air activity.
People who think they have heard QRM just may not have the historical background to remember when AM was king.
The phone bands were much smaller than they are now.
Receivers were as broad as barn doors--
Now that, my good friends, was when QRM was the real king! Ask Tom, W8JI, another great Elmer, about it. Contests then just put it all over the top. So what? Would you cry out loud if some beer guzzling red neck in a Bass Boat was fishing in your favorite spot? Not likely, unless of course you like having a flattened nose!
For those of you who are angry that the League does not represent you, so you won't join, please refer to
N8CP's post. To save you the tiresome effort of scrolling back to it, "Along with your Ham license comes a crying towel, it looks like it is being put to good use."
Spleen vent <OFF>
Who is next on this soap box?
73, Cal K4JSR
Curmudgeon Patch, Ga.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4JSR on September 30, 2004
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Bill, K2WH said,"It's time to realize guys that the ARRL is just a club with no authority to authorize anything, anywhere."
Bill, maybe some of these folks are upset at the League because they "ARE DUDES"! :-D
73, Cal K4JSR
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N6AJR on September 30, 2004
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In the last couple of weeks I have heard personally 3 arrl 135 stations (BTW 135th andiverisery of Percy Maxium's first bath or something) and it has not interupted 1 single qso I amd familar with.. anyone els been directly interfered with, not hearsay or speculation, but actually got on the freq you were using??
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N6AJR on September 30, 2004
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oops sorry for the typo's but I'm a ham not a sccratery.........:)
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on September 30, 2004
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The /135 event was clearly a contest and should not have been on the WARC bands. Because it was the League's decision to use the WARC bands for /135, they are taking some heat from the non-contesters. Anyone who calls this League bashing has a definite problem. The WARC bands must remain contest-free. What's next? Maybe all the QSO Parties? Those are contests as well, and tend to spill all over the bands. As for the League not representing the interests of its members, that's a whole 'nother topic which I don't wish to get into. I would have to rewrite the Britannica Encyclopedia. I don't have the time for that.
73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N3FQL on September 30, 2004
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You can't change the ARRL by dropping out! Get involved if you really care. Send a letter, or better yet, start a letter writing campaign. Start with your elected ARRL officials. Send an editorial to QST.To just walk away is irresponsible.
If it barks, bites, smells, looks, like a dog...it's a dog. A contest is a contest.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KE4ZHN on September 30, 2004
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Charles, with all due respect OM, thank you for letting me know what my choices are in amateur radio. I could never have figured any of this out on my own. I choose to do my own thing, when and where I am licensed to do so. And, when and where I find a clear frequency to operate on. I do adhere to the ARRL bandplan even though I dont support them because its the courteous thing to do.
The ARRL has no legal say so other then to promote its own agenda and beg for money so let them do as they please. If they can convince more folks how important they are and to send them money, then by all means let them rake it in. As long as I follow part 97, thats all Im legally bound to do on the amateur bands.
However, I will not be bullied off the bands when some contester decides to fire up 1 kc above or below my ongoing QSO in their quest for a piece of paper, or a mention in QST. Just as they have the right to participate in their contests, I have the very same right NOT to participate. I have nothing against contesting. To each his own.
What bothers me is the very poor operating practices of some who participate in these contests by not listening before they decide to call. They pretend they dont hear you and continue to call even after you inform them the frequency very close by is occupied and they are interfering. Im sure even the 7800 isnt so selective that you cant hear someone 1 kc away (or less) on ssb! Unfortuantely, many ragchewers are guilty of this practice as well. Must be a case of selective hearing. This is very rude and ignorant contest or not!
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N8UZE on September 30, 2004
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The /135 event caused no disruption or QRM that I could observe. It was actually difficult to find the stations.
A contest is NOT defined by the fact that you get a certificate. Most special events also hand out certificates. DXpeditions hand out "certificates" in the form of a QSL card. The fact that the /135 event was spread over a week or so was actually a good thing as people did not have to find the stations in just a few hours.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K3UD on September 30, 2004
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"A contest is NOT defined by the fact that you get a certificate."
Well, is a contest defined as competition between hams with the purpose of racking up more contacts, countries, states, sections and grid squares than the other guy? Is it defined by standings listed in QST or CQ or in the ARRL website? Is it defined by virtue of limited operating time being available to you to complete your quest?
Almost every operating event falls into one of more of these categories.
All I am saying is that a fine line exists between operating events that are allowed on the WARC bands and those which are not. 12 meters is a wasteland most of the time and there was a recent article about 30 meters being used lightly. 17 meters has become a rather good DX band but with the sunspot cycle going towards minimum, it is in decline. As I mentioned previously, some contesting on these bands might spur some activity.
If someone held a contest on any of these bands; who would sanction and what would the sanctions be?
73
George
K3UD
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KY1V on September 30, 2004
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Caity, K7VO...excellent post. Bravo!
I have a few thought provoking questions!
1) Who made all of these gentlemen's agreements that restrict hams from contesting in WARC bands, operating phone on 14.230, calling CQ in a "DX Window", operating CW in the phone bands.
2) How many of you "gentlemen" were consulted before the agreements were made?
3) Who says you have to abide by them.
4) Is it legal for you to tell someone not to CQ in a DX Window while you fail to identify your transmission?
5) Is it legal for you to fire up your SSTV signal on top of another hams SSB QSO?
6) Why can't you operate any other mode or band during a particular contest?
7) Why don't contesters ask if the frequency is in use before calling CQ contest?
8) Why do two guys across town from each other need to run a full KW to carry on a conversation.
9) Why does K1MAN get to operate a broadcast station and take over the frequency when its in use.
10) Why do some contesters own (and operate) 5KW and 10KW amplifiers?
11) Why did Icom price the IC-7800 out of my range of affordability?
12) Why does eHam allow anonymous posting?
13) Why can't contests be held on Wednesdays?
Shall I go on?
So, what's the point of these questions?
As long as our government is spiking the water (hehe)...we will all never agree. So, what do we do about it?
Either stop drinking the water or try to get along under the existing circumstances...it truly is that simple!
For you real serious types, I am speaking metaphorically.
Life is not fair and it never will be!
Have fun. If what you are doing at the moment is not fun, stop doing it and do something else.
David ~ KY1V
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by WB2WIK on September 30, 2004
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For clarification, since when is a contest "not allowed on the WARC bands?" That's ridiculous.
By nothing more than contest committee convention, HF contests *usually* don't include the WARC bands. Doesn't mean they shouldn't, or they won't in the future.
In case you don't remember, Field Day *did* include the WARC bands back about 15 years ago. That was GREAT, and encouraged more activity on bands that weren't being used much. WARC band use for FD was discontinued in the mid-90's, but I was very much part of the "WARC Field Day" activities prior to that and I can't recall anyone thinking it was a bad idea. FD created more activity on the 12m band for one weekend a year than that band's ever seen.
The /135 event was nothing like a contest. It was all band, all mode, unrestricted, and lasted a couple of weeks. That's not a contest, that's an operating event: Closer to an IOTA, the Boy Scout Jamboree, the Lighthouse events and so forth. The /135 event, for the most part, encouraged rag chews between the /135 stations and the participants. I made a lot of "/135" contacts and exchanged names, locations, signal reports, weather reports, political opinions, comments on the traffic and all sorts of stuff with all of them. That's a "contest?" Give me a break.
WB2WIK/6
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by AD5JN on September 30, 2004
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"2.) No operation on repeaters"
Who cares, repeaters are not used much anyway. This event might even work the the dust of the relays.
Ronn
AD5JN
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KC2EQL on September 30, 2004
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I want to say that you (n3hkn) are wright on what you wrote. I want to add that Ham Radio today, does not care much for individuals that simply want to comunicate and have dialogs over the air or perhaps experiment or study the many things within Amateur radio. I do not intend to make a comment that will bother anybody, but most operators are on the mentally of blasting over other stations, getting prizes or certificates (pure ego), beign the top dog on the hf nets or owning a band/frequency as if it was His/She personal RF real estate property. This usually discourages individuals from keeping themselfs active on the bands. I have beign on and off the bands for many years (first license when 12 years old and re-entered at an older age), enjoy them when active, make friends hear interesting things and meet interesting people, also learn from others. The contesting and radio net is good, but we have too much of that, plus little qrp stations like mine (IC-703) sometimes finds it hard to be heard in a power hungry frquency (everybody pushing big kw), hi power is
not what make a qso possible (everybady knows this but few actknowledge), it is a combination of many things and the least important is power, but then again people need those 2kw power amplifiers (big bucks) to make it where other station has always made with 5 to 30 watts of power. As they say in spanish "Que fallo", what a failure. God Bless.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by NI0C on September 30, 2004
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The author complains about: "an abusive and out of band contest operating practice."
This claim of "out of band" activity is not supported by anything else the author or any of the responders has said.
73 de Chuck NI0C
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W5HTW on September 30, 2004
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Heck, I'm an ARRL member and I have no idea what a 135 event is or was! Collecting 135's? Like KC-135's?
Guess I slept through it!
Rip Van Winkle
(also known as Ed)
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N2LJD on September 30, 2004
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Guess I'm lucky, I didn't notice any disruptions anywhere, and I usually use the WARC bands, as well as listening to the INTERCON and Maritime Mobile Svc Nets on 14300. I don't recall hearing a single CQ/135 on any Hudson Valley repeaters, though I've not been on 2m much lately.
Several others have noted ARRL is our best shot at an united voice in DC; 'nuff said.
For K7VO - gentleman's agreement is a colloquialism as old as gentlemen and agreements. If you're truly flameproof, it wouldn't bother you.
73 and all that,
Joe
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W3DCG on September 30, 2004
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Yes, confusion seemed to proliferate.
Some thought you had to have an ARRL Appointment or be a Life Member to participate.
Word was you did not.
I called some people, was ignored. I felt like because I did not sign stroke One-Three-Five.
I heard later, that an appointment was required to be able to sign /135, but that anyone could make contacts with a 135, maybe, if you were an ARRL member perhaps.
Maybe.
I went to ARRL Website- could not find easily any explanations to clarify.
I tended to feel like it had become an event of snobbery, as perhaps many One-Three-Fivers may have been under the misconception that one had to hold an appointment or be a Life Member in order to participate, and I heard several very loud 135ers being called only by other 135ers, and ignoring others who called who did not sign 135.
It was good to hear many who were Official Observers, VECs, and ONLY MERE Life Members...
But I must admit, I felt like a big fat Zero- and that is no way to acquire the continued membership dues of people like me, who every year, scrape up the dues and renew.
Now perhaps in 10 years annual dues will be no big deal, but that is not me now.
Towards the end, the impression I acquired from listening, and no longer calling, was that it seemed to be a closed- private event, demonstrated on a public venue, only this time, there was no WARC escape.
It did taste rather bitter, even if the reasons were the result of failed communication.
If it was an open to all members "event" it sure did not feel that way- and The League failed to communicate this to it's members- or they did not do a proper job publicizing the event. Perhaps it wasn't meant to be publicized.
As you can see, I still remain, a bit confused.
As a result, I'm sure glad the event is over.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W1JQ on September 30, 2004
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Oh, come on. I thought /135 was sort of silly, but I know contests, and that wasn't it. Unless you call Worked-All-States a contest. BTW, I made 0 /135 QSOs, though I qualify to use the prefix.
I did think it was lame, and lame events like this (and putting Joe Walsh in every issue of QST) mean that the ARRL leadership should think more about what it's trying to accomplish.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W5MEJ on September 30, 2004
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I just can't believe there is this much grumbling and ARRL bashing about a simple little special event type operation. It was well publicized, it is not anything new, and it was not a contest. I worked several of the /135 stations, just because they were on the air. Every contact I made with one of the /135 stations was an enjoyable QSO...definitly not a "contest exchange." On the bands and modes I operated on during this event, I never heard anything rude or disruptive from any participating station. I just looked back through my log. The first /135 contact I see there was a 20 minute QSO on 8 Sep. I don't remember all the details of that contact, but if it lasted for 20 minutes, I'll bet we said more than "you're 599 here, what was the call again?"
I hope I'm still around and operating when they do the /145 or /150 event!
73
Chuck
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KE2IV on September 30, 2004
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OMs, YLs etc.,
Gee, and as an ARRL Life Member who's been lately inactive I didn't even know what I was missing by being so desirable (or not!) as a contact. Frankly, I have no idea what /135 is (or was) but cannot believe the level of complaints being voiced here.
Imagine what activity there would be on the ham bands if all of the carping here had been "aired" on the bands instead?
Griping on websites is counterproductive to preserving HR.
Gotta' gripe?
Next time, do it (politely) on the air and help save our bands!
As Pogo said (you OT's will know this one): "We have met the enemy, and he is us!"
73,
George
KE2IV
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N5YPJ on September 30, 2004
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I initially got the impression that the 135 event was a special event, in the last weekend of it's activity I definitely felt that it had turned into a contest. I heard one station on the same frequency on 20 for nearly six hours straight, and he was definitely contesting. Also heard others on 17 meters, who were also contesting. I agree with you - poor judgement, on both those operators who were running roughshod, and the ARRL.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by NA4IT on September 30, 2004
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WA4DOU DE NA4IT
FYI:
Studied electronics in college,
ARRL member,
Extra Class Ham.
And in the 70's was WD4AXH.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KC8VWM on September 30, 2004
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Charles, with all due respect OM, thank you for letting me know what my choices are in amateur radio. I could never have figured any of this out on my own.
And, when and where I find a clear frequency to operate on. I do adhere to the ARRL bandplan even though I dont support them because its the courteous thing to do.
Thanks Richard, Your comments are appreciated and they are clear in the fact that you operate as a gentleman.
Since no one actually "owns" any frequency, And since the /135 event was nothing like a contest, It was not therefore intened to interfere with any other operators on the band that you may have occupied at the time.
In fact, this event was not even particularly limited to any one band.
Any participants involved were also required to the adhere to the same gentlemans agreements and principles as those that did not participate.
This event did not "dismiss" anyone from following the rules of operating their stations accordingly.
Thanks for listening.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KY1V on September 30, 2004
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N5YPJ wrote:
"I heard one station on the same frequency on 20 for nearly six hours straight, and he was definitely contesting. Also heard others on 17 meters, who were also contesting. I agree with you - poor judgement, on both those operators who were running roughshod, and the ARRL."
Perhaps you meant to write... (only words in CAPS were changed)
"I heard one station on the same frequency on 20 for nearly six hours straight, and he was definitely HAVING FUN. Also heard others on 17 meters, who were also HAVING A BLAST. I agree with you - EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THIS MUCH FUN, LIKE both those operators who were running STATIONS AND HAVING A GREAT TIME, THANKS TO the ARRL ."
Then you might have added a positive comment such as...
"It is great to see the bands so active with people enjoying themselves, last week I called CQ on 20 meters for 30 minutes without a response and 17 meters was dead!"
I cannot fathom the perpetual disparage of fellow hams owing to the fact they find pleasure in our shared hobby in some fashion different than our own.
If you couldn't find ANY FUN on all the other frequencies that were available to you...why didn't you go find something else to do...THAT WAS FUN?
How is it that we have gotten so many incensed people into ham radio these days. I simply cannot remember it being like this when I first came into the hobby.
David ~ KY1V
P.S. N5YPJ...I am not picking on you, I just used your post as it is analogous to my point that the proliferation of hate in ham radio is incongruous.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K1WW on September 30, 2004
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K6KDK, you need to take up another hobby. Apparently you don't enjoy this one very much.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N1ZHE on September 30, 2004
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Yes, let's bash the ARRL yet again.
It's so easy because we're not face to face with them. God forbid that should ever happen. We might find out some of the good things they do for us, then where would we be? Who could we bash then?
I've seen one /135 callsign. He was "clogging up" the frequency on 14.070 psk31. And he was operating QRP - 5 watts of band hogging power!
Oh my goodness! I feel so guilty because I actually had the nerve to make contact with him and swap QSL's.
Get a grip on yourselves, fellow hams. And remember, the /135 guys and gals are our fellow hams, too.
I certainly don't agree with everything my ham brothers and sisters do, and most of them don't have a /135 appended to the end of their callsign.
David, N1ZHE
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K7VO on September 30, 2004
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For Joe, N2LJD:
I do not, and did not, object to the term "Gentlemen's Agreement". In fact I use it myself. You completely misunderstood me.
What I objected to appeared in the original article *ONLY*, and was not used by anyone else. It was this one line: "Gentlemen, it's not too late! " The author appealed to us as "Gentlemen" assuming there were no ladies present, or at least none that mattered. That is where my objection lies.
I did not use the dreaded "s" word because I assume the slight made to myself and all other female hams who might be interested in the issue was unintentional. Unintentional, but hurtful all the same.
73,
Caity
K7VO
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4JSR on September 30, 2004
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David, KY1V said, "Life is not fair and it never will be!"
David, you are a shameless iconoclast! I must now borrow N8CP's crying towel because mine is already
all soggy! I hope you are happy! OH! The humanity...
Jeez, Charles, are ya happy now that you've seen my
"more sensitive" side? :p
Besides, Philip, KOE, is trying to tell everyone that 135 is my waist measurement!
To Ms. Caity; When people come after you on the internet and thow lemons and flames, just make lemon-
ade and charburgers. Those of us who appreciate your
efforts on behalf of Elmering would be happy to help
you consume the above victuals. (That is why KOE sez
my waist size is 135!)(He ain't so little in da middle, either!)
Those of you who continually bash on the ARRL remind
me of a billboard I saw in th 60's. It showed a Police
Officer pulling a child out of a burning house.
The text was something similar to, "Pig? Next time
you need help, call a hippie".
Let's see where you all run with that one!
Soap box <VACANT> Next?
73, Cal K4JSR
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KC0OZU on September 30, 2004
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I am an ARRL member and will continue to support the League. 135 contests or not. Yes, it was a contest and I agree that they don't belong on the WARC bands.
The thing that really bothered me on this one though, was that experienced HAMs were crowding and at times walking right over the nets on 14.300, 14.325, and 14.265 during hurricane assistance efforts.
The guys in the field are using their mobile radios and are a lot less likely to "slice" out nearby QRM.
Several times in the middle of field work during the hurricane, net operators were interfered with by 135 operators 'contesting' 3 or 4 up or down from the nets!
THAT was poor form and shameful.
Time to get off my soapbox.
73 Steve
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KC8VWM on September 30, 2004
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Earlier when I mentioned the phrase "Gentleman's Agreement", I wan't to be very clear that this is intended to include all radio amateurs, including YL's, youths, and an amateur operator of course.
The fact that the age old "gentleman's" agreement was originally created by a group of gentleman, does not exclude anyone from participating in these principles of operating their stations.
73
Charles - KC8VMW
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N5YPJ on September 30, 2004
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I know what I meant to write, and I wrote it, thank you.
You are the one who appears to have so little to do that you go around trying to put words in other's mouths.
I did have fun, on this day, and on every other day that I operate.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N5YPJ on September 30, 2004
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I know what I meant to write, and I wrote it, thank you.
You are the one who appears to have so little to do that you go around trying to put words in other's mouths.
I did have fun, on this day, and on every other day that I operate.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KY1V on September 30, 2004
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Cal,
Out of the entire post, that was all that struck you?
Thank you for the new designation, I'll add it to my growing list of eHam spun iniquitous titles!
David ~ KY1V
Amateur of the Year
eHam - "Jerk of the Year"
eHam - "Shameless Iconoclast"
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KY1V on September 30, 2004
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Cal,
Out of the entire post, that was all that struck you?
Thanks for the new title, I'll add it to my growing list of eHam spun iniquitous designations!
David ~ KY1V
Amateur of the Year
eHam - "Jerk of the Year"
eHam - "Shameless Iconoclast"
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K6KDK on September 30, 2004
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I am the author of the article above, and I thank everyone for their comments.
I thought I should clarify a few points.
Firstly, the article is in no way ARRL bashing. I am a dues paying member of the ARRL and have been for the last 15 years. Actually the article is a copy of the email I sent to ALL the ARRL directors. Here is a copy of the header of that original email:
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan
To: w6rgg@arrl.org
Cc: n3efn@arrl.org ; w9gig@arrl.org ; k0qb@arrl.org ; k5ur@arrl.org ; k8je@arrl.org ;
n2ff@arrl.org ; w0ej@arrl.org ; k1kl@arrl.org ; w7oz@arrl.org ; w4pwf@arrl.org ;
w0cp@arrl.org ; w4rh@arrl.org ; w6xd@arrl.org ; n5ok@arrl.org
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 4:02 PM
Subject: Poor Judgement on the 135 Event!
Second important point for clarification is that NOT ONE of the above directors responded to or acknowledged my email. It was the total non response from my ARRL Board of Directors to comments from one of their members (me!) that caused my submission of a copy of the email to www.eham.net for their information and possible publication.
Third point, is that the use of the term "Gentlemen" was appropriate use because all the receipents of the group of Directors were, in fact, of the male gender.
Fourth point, I am a contester, and participate regularly in various contests. I even get luckey sometimes and place well in those events. I understand the contesters responsibilities. I
would never key up a transmitter of mine in the WARC Bands for any contest like activity. The WARC Bands are considered a 'safe haven'.
Fifth point, I understand that some question if there was, in fact, "abuse" of weak signal DX, as they did not hear any such problems for themselves. I have a small log of such events that I choose not to publish here, as it would be in bad taste to list the call signs of the offending stations. I can assure you, however, that there were numerous examples.
Hope this helps, -Dan K6KDK
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KL7IPV on September 30, 2004
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I guess if you don't like something the ARRL is doing, you should write to the ARRL. Did you? Or are they supposed to read eHam and see who is talking about them. Nope, I don't agree with all they do either, but I support them because they are all we have. And we need all we can get. Join up and help or stop calling them names which does neither them or us any good. If you aint part of the solution, then............
73
Frank
KL7IPV
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event / K7VO
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by N2LJD on September 30, 2004
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K7VO - Yep, misread you. My apologies.
Joe
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event / K7VO
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by N4GI on October 1, 2004
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<< I choose not to publish here, as it would be in bad taste to list the call signs of the offending stations.>>
PHOOEY. It's not.
If I were on the list, I'd like to know if I did something wrong.
N4GI
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by AB2RC on October 1, 2004
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NA4IT writes "Also, I do not think it is right that to be a Net Manager, Emergency Coordinator, or to hold other positions that you MUST be an ARRL member. I feel that is discrimination, period. "
Can you name a single organization which allows individuals to hold a position within the organization without being a member of that organization?
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KD5JZN on October 1, 2004
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If you arent happy with the ARRL dont join, if you are an existing member dont renew. But then you wouldn't have anything to come on here and whine about would you?
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KA2FIR on October 1, 2004
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I started late into the event but managed to get over 25 contacts, mostly on 20 and 40 meters. The event was very relaxed not like the quick contest-style contacts. As far as I'm concerned the event did not cause any disruption. It even generated activity on 40 when most people QRT due to SWB qrm.
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RE: Shameless Iconoclast
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by K4JSR on October 1, 2004
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David, I don't recall calling you a jerk. If I did
then I apologize. However you are a shameless iconoclast for shattering my lifelong belief that
life was fair and that everybody and everything was
lovey-dovey politically correct. Next thing ya know
you'll be telling me that the California Raisins are
all dead---Killed by a cereal killer! OH WEEP! WAIL!
The humanity of it all!.....
I guess we can debate it on the FOX News Channel...
On Humanity and Colmes, of course!
I did get other things from your post, David, but this
looked like it would be the most fun to play with,
for the moment.
Now, just where the @#$%^&*! is my crying towel?
You know that memory is the second thing to go,
don't you?
73, Cal K4JSR
Forget-Me-Not Rest QTH, Ga.
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RE: Shameless Iconoclast
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by WA6BPE on October 1, 2004
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I have no idea what a /135 is. If it was described somewhere above, I missed it. I didn't hear anything like it on the air. What is it?
I did see this by N4GI
>>What length of time defines "long standing"? How am I supposed to know how long standing a net/sked is? Is there a list? Can non-long standing nets be disturbed? What about 20, 15, or 10 meter long standing nets?<<<
Hey, N4GI, you're just supposed to KNOW that the Joe Blow And Friends Ham Hour is on 14.XYZ like it's been EVERY Saturday since 1974 at exactly 18KG Zulu time and they need a clear frequency both 3 kHz above AND below so they can check up on how 'KB's new dipole he's putting up at the retirement QTH in Florida is going because he's only got 100 watts and they have a tough time hearing him back in central wherever-it-was-he-started. God forbid you're actually using 14.XYZ when the net starts - you'll need to QSY, OM. Important net traffic on freq - NOW.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4JSR on October 1, 2004
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Steve, KC0OZU said, "Several times in the middle of field work during the hurricane, net operators were interfered with by 135 operators 'contesting' 3 or 4 up or down from the nets!
THAT was poor form and shameful."
I agree except for blaming it all on /135 operators.
Lids and poor operators have been around ever since
there were more than two hams talking to each other.
I am not a contester, nor do I ever intend to be one.
However contests and competitions have a place in ham
radio as does any other aspect of the hobby.
I heard a lot of QRM on the Hurricane Nets as well,
but I never heard the /135 suffix attached to any of it. I am not saying that you, or anyone else are
mistaken. I am just saying that I did not hear any of it.
What is that old saying? "LIDS HAPPEN" and not always
intentionally.
As for the author of this article goes, he is a dues
paying member of the ARRL and has the right to expect some acknowledgement from League Management. It is
the non-members who complain about being treated like the illegal aliens they are, that I have contention
with. I don't care if someone does not care to join the League. Just don't think that they should be responsive to your whims. As for paid members, Sic 'em, tigers! You have every right to expect redress.
Remove self from soap box. NEXT?
73 Cal K4JSR
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RE: Shameless Iconoclast
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by WB2WIK on October 1, 2004
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K6KDK, possibly the reason you've received no replies to your letter is that it actually didn't request any reply.
I just re-read your letter, and if I had received that, I wouldn't have replied, either. (Possibly a "thanks for your letter" response would go out.)
Usually, to garner a reply, you need to either ask questions, which your letter did not, or request a reply, which your letter did not. Your letter did request "action," and possibly some occurred; you probably should call or write back to find out.
Remember, Directors and many League officials are unpaid, elected positions. They're not "staff," most of them have real jobs, families and other obligations.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Shameless Iconoclast
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by KY1V on October 1, 2004
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Cal,
You didn't call me "Jerk of the Year".
That was someone else in another post. Since I have received several designations this year, I thought I should start listing them on my posts.
Who knows, maybe I will become famous some day!
David ~ KY1V
Amateur of the Year
eHam - "Jerk of the Year"
eHam - "Shameless Iconoclast"
eHam - "TBA"
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RE: Shameless Iconoclast
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by KC8VWM on October 1, 2004
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"Next thing ya know
you'll be telling me that the California Raisins are
all dead---Killed by a cereal killer! OH WEEP! WAIL!
The humanity of it all!..... "
This just in...
The California Raisins have just expired.
This is KC8VWM...Reporting live for CNN.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N9AVY on October 1, 2004
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Hmmmmm, I was on 20m and didn't hear anything with /135 on other bands. Doubt that any operation on WARC or 2m bands was that widespread.
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RE: Shameless Iconoclast
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by K4JSR on October 1, 2004
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eham-TBA? Tires, Batteries, Accessories?
Don't worry about what people call you, as long as it
isn't late to dinner!
That would too cruel! Oh, the humanity of it!
(Apply back of hand to forehead while looking distressed.)
Charles, I would *RATHER* you report those deaths
on See BS!
Remove back of hand from forehead and wave "BYE! BYE!
Oh, the Ehamnets of this all!
73 Cal K4JSR
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4JSR on October 1, 2004
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W4MY, how did they get that Pontiac into that little
old teapot? My teapot doesn't have any drive up
ramps. Should I be jealous?
Oh, and don't tell me that an "old bag" drove it in
there!
Hey, I've been around long enough to remember when
some old commercial VHF radios had "TEA" Whine!
73, Cal K4JSR/136 (Wait 'til next year!)
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W2MC on October 2, 2004
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I learned a long, long time ago.
Some people will complain because the sun comes up every day.
Jon
W2MC
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by NN6EE on October 2, 2004
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I am one who also has a lot of issues with the ARRL!!!
Starting back in 2000 until 2003 the local ARRLS were on a "Holy-Jihad" to rid Amateur Radio of all of their perceived "Bad Apples". I as well as MANY other civil-behavior operators were constantly harrassed by these so called "ARRL RADIO-COPS", who I might add were all primarily from one particular local radio club here in the EBay section, because we did'nt like their own PETTY/VINDICTIVE behavior. It was really IMMATURE of these people to be so anal as to think they could play "GOD" as well as trump up accusations against myself and other Hams and get Mr. Riley Hollywood to go along with them (which by the way HE did!!!)
Within the last year though, thru Rosalie White , head of the ARRL field appointee program, has realized how OUT-OF-CONTROL our EBay OOs really were and proceeded to "TERMINATE" the whole damn bunch of JERKS!!! That Gentlemen has never happened in the history of the national OO program ever (until now!) If anyone doubts the veracity of my statement please feel free to ask the ARRL or contact our Pacific divison director "Bob-W6RGG", and even Riley was complict in the scheme to discredit some Hams here in the EBay section in my own estimation.
Yes I did get (2) "Warning Letters" from Riley a few years ago brought about by these so-called "Good Guys" of the air!!!
So our local OOs really got their ASSES spanked but good!!!
PS, The ARRL got rid of the OOs because of potential "LITIGATION" against them by many of their "victims" here in EBay!!!
Jim/nn6ee
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KG5JJ on October 2, 2004
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Well...I've been wanting much more technical coverage in QST lately, but, you can't please everyone all the time. There has to be balance. Articles for newbies, articles for intermediates, articles for engineers. Everyone yelling, "do this, do that"! It would seem the ARRL is damned, no matter what they do.
That said, contests interest me about as much as a wet fart. To others, it is mecca. This might be construed as a cop-out, but until it directly affects my operation, it doesn't affect me. There are plenty of things to do during contests that require turning the radio off...ah...the sweet sounds of silence. Now, time to find those QSLs I haven't confirmed for many months because of a move. Where the heck are they?
73 KG5JJ (Mike)
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4SFC on October 3, 2004
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Am I the only one that didn't know what the "135 Event" was??? Or just the only one that would admit not knowing? I guess it didn't bother my operation.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4SFC on October 3, 2004
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P.S. Yes, I am an A.R.R.L. member. But unlike many others, money was never my goal in life.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W2MC on October 3, 2004
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NN6EE, you then should be happy for the ARRL.
According to your diatribe, they did what they're supposed to do...step in where the field folks were getting out of hand.
Of course, what all of that has to do with the "/135" event is well beyond me.
Jon
W2MC
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by NN6EE on October 3, 2004
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Jon/W2MC,
Your statement was very NAIVE!!!
It not a "DIATRIBE" as you want to see, and how would you or anyone else react if it happened to you???
IT'S A COMPLETE VINDICATION!!!!
And since it DID happen as stated the ARRL should have had in place more "safe-guards" to prevent it from ever happening in the first place!!! I was an OO in the 70s and we never dreamed of EVER having a vendetta against anyone as that was NOT part of the job desciption nor purpose of the "volunteer service" as even YOU should know!!!
Jim/ee
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by NN6EE on October 3, 2004
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Quote from Jon/W2MC: Of course, what all of that has to do with the "/135" event is well beyond me.
We're talking about ISSUES with the ARRL are'nt we? Not just "135" as that is only one of many everybody seems to have with said organization!!!
Jim/ee
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K6KDK on October 3, 2004
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It's not my position to moderate, although I think this actually an interesting dialog between N6EE and W2MC.and I would like to comment.
On first reading I agreed with W2MC and that the post by N6EE was sort of off the topic of the /135 event. But actually, on thinking more about it, maybe it is exactly to the point. After all, the point I was trying to make in the Article Posting was that the the ARRL had a responsibility to "mamage" the outcome of the grand idea of a 135 Birthday Party On the Air for their Founder HPM. And further if the outcome had drifted off the original highway in what became a sort of dangerous and reckless direction, I asked the ARRL for "action" in the form a a "white paper" to the operators instructing them to keep it a "non-contest" and otherwise not operate it as a contest type activity on the WARC Bands and Repeaters and so forth.
There is an old saw that says "The responsibility of management is to manage". Some one posted that the ARRL Directors are a "busy group with other personal jobs and responsibilites, etc.." As if this was an excuse for them to turn loose an idea onto the active airways, and then just "walk away" from it with a "well what ever happens happens attitude"
W2MC notes in his post "they did what they're supposed to do...step in where the field folks were getting out of hand. ".. That is exactly to my original point of the /135 post. All I was asking for is a little management direction from those that were supposed to be in charge.
Hope this helps, -Dan K6KDK
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by NN6EE on October 3, 2004
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Dan,
One other thought is that the ARRL in it's every-evolving mindset that I bet EVENTUALLY they'll be promoting a "Non test Amateur License" to increase Ham-gear sales and increase their membership!!! As you are well aware we're almost to that point now are'nt we?
Jim/ee
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by WA5MKA on October 3, 2004
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United "we bargain" with the F.C.C.! Divided "we beg" them ! Which, in your honest opinion, is the better position to be in ? I don't agree with everything the A.R.R.L. does, especially the "Winlink" proposal. Hopefully they will drop it, if they haven't already. But honestly how many frequencies do you think we would have to operate on today, if we didn't have the A.R.R.L. "bargaining" with the F.C.C. for us( all 700,000 of us ), with only 100,000 of us footing the bill ! If you don't like the way the A.R.R.L. is run, join up & vote for change. If I'm not mistaken, even Wayne--W2NSD/1 is/was a member ! What I heard on the bands with the /135 was a "Special Event" w/ragchewing & not a contest. Some of the OM's & YL's might have gotten a little over anxious & over zealous to work their 25 /135's to get their award/cert. But I guess that's to be expected given the busy world we live in today & the limited amount of time we have to be on the bands.
Just my $.02 worth,
George---W7KCU, ex:WA5MKA
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W2MC on October 3, 2004
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I disagree completely.
The League puts together a 'fun' bit for those who like to collect paper every now and then. This time around its adding "/135" to a call, collect x number qso's, and you get a piece of paper.
Nice fun little bit that many like to play. Go out an use the radio and get something for it. Kinda like the various DX-peditions, the IOTA folks, the county collectors, or some of those "EVIL" special event stations. Geez, I'm not a paper-chaser, but I even did one of those a few years ago...set up with the local cub scouts at a "cubaree" and gave out certificates. There were two of us; one ran 40, and the other ran 20. (Why? Mainly because thats what the dipoles we had were cut for.....)
But of course, the nay-sayers in the world have to moan and groan about something.
Oh, My Gosh! SOMEONE USED the WARC BANDS!! I had a shot at DX! (Higly unlikely...and what are you doing DX'ing on the WARC bands, anyway? Some would argue that you aren't supposed to do THAT either. But I digress...)
Lets be real. Usually the bands are half-dead; WARC included. At my last QTH, among the aluminum there was an A3W, and with that and 100 watts, I could own 12 and 17 meters. Its going back up soon, BTW. But I have to keep things in perspective.
WHY?
BECAUSE THIS IS A HOBBY.
I have a XYL, two kids, a house, a barn, two horses, a dog, and several barn cats to worry about. I need to get them all set at this new QTH before winter hits. THEN I will have some time to get some aluminum back up in the sky.
So please put all of this back into perspective, and stop complaining because the sun comes up every day.
Jon
W2MC
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by WB4TGT on October 3, 2004
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DAN, THESE GUYS WILL PICK YOUR BONES FOR SAYING THAT.
BUT I AGREE WITH YOU.
ARRL IS GETTING LIKE ALL THE OTHER BUSSINESS AROUND THE COUNTRY----GET ALL YOU CAN CAUSE WE MIGHT BE HERE TOMORROW
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KC4ZGP on October 4, 2004
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...and the question of the year is..."If the ARRL is so damaging, why do folks give them nmoney?" Drop out of the ARRL and eventually the damage will cease eh?
Kraus
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W5JBP on October 4, 2004
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Seems that some would complain if hung with a new rope. The following was posted on another site. I worked 109 stations and talked to many just to say hello other than 599. Everyone I talked to enjoyed the celebration of HPM's 135 birthday.
Jim, W5JBP/135P
=========
Did anybody else have as much fun with this occassion as I did? There I was, minding my own business in my little shack when I called," CQ, CQ this is KI4AOC/135 standing by for the Maxim Birthday Event". The next thing I know, I'm working a pile-up including DX stations wanting contact with '135' stations for the certificate. Between the 4th of September and the 12th of September, I worked 99 non-'135' stations and another 100 elegible '135' stations. (the max you can get certified for the certificate) I even got a call from the ARRL President and had a nice little QSO with him. I shook hands with folks from all over the U.S. and 8 different DX entities who answered my "CQ". I'm still new (1yr4mos) in Amateur Radio so I still get a thrill picking up a microphone and, if I have everything set up and tuned right, seeing who is going to answer on the other end. I get to travel all over the world, meeting people, learning about places I've never been and letting my imagination run a little wild. This event was a wonderful, no pressure, opportunity to really enjoy my most favorite aspect of Amateur Radio.
These types of events, in my opinion, are perfect opportunities for new, younger, less experienced operators to get in there and have some fun while learning good operating practices.
Let me know what YOU think. (my log extract is already on it's way in for the certificate)
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KI9A on October 4, 2004
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Um, Dan..this was NOT A "contest"!!!!!!!
It was an operating event, no different than a special event, a DX operation, or a bunch of guys in rare counties handing out QSO's. Sounds to me like you have a problem with the ARRL that stems from something other than the /135, am I correct?
Look, some of the folks on this list sit around & bemoan the "death" of ham radio, how nobody gets on, ect, ect, but, when folks do get on, they complain. As my 17 year old Daughters says... "DUH".
So Dan (K6KDK), wipe your eyes & quit whining...understand that others have different interests within this hobby & accept it. I do almost everything this hobby has to offer..contest, dx, ragchew, nets, & just got into PSK31, I love it all.
You guys P**s & moan about the ARRL, but, little do you know, they just about the only thing standing between us & many outside influences wanting to take our spectrum. If you don't like it, run for SM or something & change it. Crying on eham will never change anything!
73-Chuck KI9A
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KI9A on October 4, 2004
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I'd like to add, during the /135 event, the Route 66 on -the-air event was held, & I heard several W6 1x1 calls on the air...this was not a "contest" either, but, I hear nobody whining about that operation!
73-Chuck KI9A
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KS1A on October 4, 2004
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So this is a reason to not renew ARRL membership? THIS?
Without the real work of the ARRL you would have lost most of your frequencies to business use. How lame to not renew because of a special event on the WARC bands. Don't take your ball and go home just because you object to one out of the 200 things the ARRL does right. We need every one of you, particularly if you're this passionate about ham radio. Or else when this hobby truly dwindles down to only fat guys over 55, no one will hear your cries as your bands get carved up to the mammoth RFID Corportation or SuperDooperWideTV dot com or NeighborhoodWckedWideBroadband. LtD.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K6KDK on October 4, 2004
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As this topic has been on the board for a while, and it probably is getting near to scrolling off the eham system, I thought I would respond to some of the comments before we all QRT on this, and the whole subject passes away.
There are several reccurant themes in the responses that are arguing in favor of the way the /135 event was handled by the ARRL. The primary one, of course, is that they agree with the official position of the ARRL in that it "was not a contest". Other agruments, are "if it wasn't for the ARRL we would not have Ham Radio in the USA so lets go along with the club that has kept everything for us and protected our band spectrum". Other arguments are that 17mtrs and other WARC Bands are little used, so "what's the 'diff, why get excited, it picked up operating activity on the little used WARC Bands".
My response, in reverse order, is that any one that thinks the WARC Bands are dead either needs better antennas, a new reciever, or both! In fact these bands are very narrow, are heavely used, and are, in a sense, "fragile" and easily subject to damage in the same way a desert enviornment is. As to the ARRL keeping Ham Radio on the air in the USA, least the FCC take it all away, the fact is that the USA Federal Government has agreed to the Ham Bands as a result of Internation Convention and signed accords. The FCC couldn't take it away if it wanted to, and the fact is that it doesn't want to. As to the argument that "it wasn't a contest" I would submit the following "thought exercise":
---As you know this past weekend the Northern California Contest Club held the CQP contest. Because the NCCC is responsibly run, it striclty limits its contests to well accepted areas of the Ham Bands where contesting activity has been historically permitted. It does NOT permit its members to operate the CQP on the WARC bands, and if you do you are disqualified from the event. -What you might not know is that next week the NCCC is holding the /150 Birthday party to celebrate the birthday of the first known "Obnoxious Ugly American Contester". As this is a "special event" (not a contest!) it will be on 2 meter repeaters, as well as the WARC Bands, and just anywhere else you choose to operate.
So "how now brown cow" ??
73s -Dan K6KDK
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W2MC on October 5, 2004
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So call their complaint line
1-800-CRY-WAAA
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Poor ARRL Judgement supports ARRL boycott
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by W9WHE-II on October 5, 2004
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WA4DOU writes:
"So whats stopping you from being an ARRL member and being heard as well?
Just who at the ARRL do you think cares what you think? I was an ARRL member. HOWEVER, I CANCELLED my membership because the ARRL launched its proposal to "dumb down" and fundimentally change amateur radio without even consulting the broader membership. Those running the ARRL have their own adjenda and the rest of us can just "shut up and pay our dues". Well...not me and not the many others that have also cancelled their ARRL memberships and supported the ARRL boycott.
W9WHE
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement supports ARRL boycott
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by W5JBP on October 5, 2004
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W9WHE-- Please answer the following questions (if you can).
1. Who writes the questions for the amateur exams?
2. How many members on the committee?
3. How many from the ARRL?
4. How many questions have you submitted?
5. Which exams did you submit questions?
So, if amateur radio is "dumbed down" as you like to say, who's fault is that? You can find the answer to this question by answering the five listed above.
Jim
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K4RAF on October 5, 2004
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"United 'we bargain' with the F.C.C.! Divided 'we beg' them ! Which, in your honest opinion, is the better position to be in?"
If you do the math, we are polarized, 1/7 for, 6/7th self-supporting. Using the FCC electronic filing system, I don't have to depend on anyone & their agenda. You are also dreaming if you think the bandloading amateurs exert on our allocations justifies the huge swath of wasted space! I challenge eHam to do a poll of actual stations on 900, 1.2, 2.4, 5GHz & above. It will be a joke, IMHO.
"I don't agree with everything the A.R.R.L. does, especially the "Winlink" proposal. Hopefully they will drop it, if they haven't already."
No way this is going away, not with $1000 modems & lots of grant money floating around for "home security". Just follow the money... However, most operators stay at home (as they should) in an actual emergency. If you listen to the hurricane nets, hams talking about weather. Rather "stimulating"? Besides, there really is no "security" aspect left in ham radio. Again, an ARRL phalacy used to recruit newbies circa 2004.
"But honestly how many frequencies do you think we would have to operate on today, if we didn't have the A.R.R.L. "bargaining" with the F.C.C. for us( all 700,000 of us ), with only 100,000 of us footing the bill!"
Honestly? 1.8-150MHz... but... Footing the bill for what??? These ARRLites are living in an endless political campaign mode where they just keep digging more donations. A "Spectrum Defense Fund"? a $2 million "endowment" for W1AW? "BPL AND MORE"? Federal Employee matching funds from Exxon/Mobile? All the while, luxuriously outsourcing services at will, with 70 employees. I still remember that "220 Defense Fund" got spent on "after-defeat expenses". $ymbolism over substance @ a premium = ARRL 2004 & Beyond...
They forced many of us out with the Virginia ARES mutany. "An ugly situation that had to be handled" but went 100% against the majority wishes of the state's ARRL members. Now we have 2 parallel efforts. A struggle over training fees being "handed up" turned ugly. Free training or leave? I took my limited funds & went life with my NRA membership. They don't call non-members "freeloaders" & teach about 95% of safety training in civilian firearms. They actually listen to any firearm owner or any interested parties...
"If you don't like the way the A.R.R.L. is run, join up & vote for change."
Until the ARRL changes, I won't be rejoining. The current culture depends on high turnover, high prices for basic information available on the net (free) & compensates for it. Once you figure it out, 3 card Monty is gone on to the next block, new game.
Honestly, there are far more progressive things going on outside stagnant amateur radio, like 802.1x license free wireless broadband. I am doing my best engineering coverage to beat BPL with radio, not rhetoric & resistance. I take the positive vs. the ARRL's obstructionist approach to broadband. They already know fate, thus rolling out "BPL & More II - revenge of the herd" but no actual solution.
Change mange, the hair fell off the dog...
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KI9A on October 5, 2004
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K6KDK says
"As you know this past weekend the Northern California Contest Club held the CQP contest. Because the NCCC is responsibly run, it striclty limits its contests to well accepted areas of the Ham Bands where contesting activity has been historically permitted. It does NOT permit its members to operate the CQP on the WARC bands, and if you do you are disqualified from the event. -What you might not know is that next week the NCCC is holding the /150 Birthday party to celebrate the birthday of the first known "Obnoxious Ugly American Contester". As this is a "special event" (not a contest!) it will be on 2 meter repeaters, as well as the WARC Bands, and just anywhere else you choose to operate"
Dan, where do you get your info on the /150??? I checked the normal contest sites & see nothing about it.
A contest involves a SCORING process. Special events do not. /135 had NO SCORING, so, how can you still hang onto your statments about it being a contest?
73-Chuck KI9A
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K6KDK on October 5, 2004
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KI9A -
>>
Dan, where do you get your info on the /150??? I checked the normal contest sites & see nothing about it.
>>
Chuck, I hardly know how to explain it to you, re-read my post a couple more times, you will get the drift of it soon, I am sure....
>>
A contest involves a SCORING process. Special events do not. /135 had NO SCORING, so, how can you still hang onto your statments about it being a contest?
>>
No Scoring? Humm.. here is the RULES from the ARRL themselves. You have here all the trappings of any full blown contest. Rules for those that operate, log submissions, and an award for those that make the requisite number of contacts...
From the ARRL site::
The HPM/135 event begins at 0000 UTC on Thursday, September 2, and concludes at 2400 UTC on Sunday, September 12. Stations may be contacted on any band or mode--including repeaters--for credit. HPM/135 stations transmit signal report, appointment (or position) and name. All others transmit signal report and name.
To obtain a certificate, submit a log extract including date, time, band, call sign worked and exchange for each /135 contact. HPM/135 stations are eligible for a certificates too. Include your name, call sign and address and indicate how many HPM/135 stations you worked. Entries go to HPM/135 Celebration, c/o W1AW, 225 Main St, Newington, CT 06111-1494. Entries may be submitted on a floppy disk or CD in text format. ....
Hope this helps, -Dan K6KDK
PS; Sounds like a "contest" to me.. No?? I'm still wrong???
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement supports ARRL boycott
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by W9WHE-II on October 7, 2004
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Jim:
Let's not play games. ARRL proposed that FCC "drop" the level of knowlege required for getting HF priveleges. Dropping the "standards" is just another way of saying that ARRL seeks to "dumb down" the tests. We all know that.
I realize ARRL thinks that if FCC gives away HF priveleges to thousands of hams, ARRL will see lots of new $$$ from existing hams with new HF priveleges purchasing pricy ARRL HF publications. This explains why ARRL persists in its proposal DESPITE the uproar and costly member cancellations. Self interest is a powerful thing. Yes, I know you aren't paid, but then again, YOU, AS PRESIDENT, DON'T EVEN GET A VOTE!
Many of us cancelled our memberships because ARRL never bothered to survey the broader membership before floating the "dumbing down" proposal. Now, I'm not foolish enough to think that even if 3/4 of members were against the proposal, that it would have made any difference. ARRL would have proceeded anyway. Finincial self interest is a powerful thing. The proposal is driven by ARRL'S desire for more $$.
HOWEVER, he decision to keep secret how each director voted really rubs salt into many wounds. WHY THE SECRECY JIM? Why not tell the members how their ELECTED officials voted? Got something against transparency? Let me guess, is it because those directors voting for the proposal would be VOTED OUT OF OFFICE? Naaaah!
W9WHE
Proud to have cancelled my membership.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement supports ARRL boycott
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by W5JBP on October 7, 2004
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HOWEVER, he decision to keep secret how each director voted really rubs salt into many wounds.
---------------
You tend to assume a lot. How do you know there was a "decision" as you say? Show me your data. Also, members are welcome to call, e-mail or ask their directors at conventions about their voting habits.
Please answer my earlier 5 questions.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by KI9A on October 7, 2004
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Dan says "Chuck, I hardly know how to explain it to you, re-read my post a couple more times, you will get the drift of it soon, I am sure.... "
No doubt, I get it. I see someone who has issues with the ARRL, someone don't like contests, & someone who disagrees with others because they enjoy a part of the hobby he does not.
Should WARC bands be free of contests, heck yeah. And I'm a contester.
Should WARC bands be free of special events, dx-peditions, & nets? Maybe just use them to ragchew? Maybe..I would not be opposed to that. Is this the bottom line, Dan?
Anyway, thanks for keeping it civil, that does not happen much here on eham!
73-Chuck
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement supports ARRL boycott
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by KC8VWM on October 7, 2004
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"I realize ARRL thinks that if FCC gives away HF priveleges to thousands of hams,..."
Now think about that for a moment.
Like this would be a bad thing..
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement supports ARRL boycott
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by KC8VWM on October 7, 2004
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"Many of us cancelled our memberships because ARRL never bothered to survey the broader membership before floating the "dumbing down" proposal."
Speak for yourself...
The ARRL doesn't need to send a survey to make "improvements" to the amateur radio service.
This is what my ARRL dues are paying for.
This so called "dumbing down" proposal you are talking about isn't substantiated.
It is merely based on hearsay, conspiracy theories and formed opinion without fact.
Please provide us with a detailed study (I will even accept a brief one)outlining how license restructuring would suggest otherwise.
I would especially be interested in how "keeping people out" promotes the future growth of Amateur Radio?
I'm listening...
(oh, BTW code isn't the issue here)
--... ...-- / -.. . / -.-. .... .- .-. .-.. . ... / -.- -.-. ---.. ...- .-- --
-- . -- -... . .-. / .- .-. .-. .-..
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K6KDK on October 7, 2004
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KI9A says:
>>
.. I get it. I see someone who has issues with the ARRL, someone don't like contests, & someone who disagrees with others because they enjoy a part of the hobby he does not.
Should WARC bands be free of contests, heck yeah. And I'm a contester.
Should WARC bands be free of special events, dx-peditions, & nets? Maybe just use them to ragchew? Maybe..I would not be opposed to that. Is this the bottom line, Dan?
>>>
Chuck,
Yes, this is the bottom line, The WARC bands should be free of contests. The issue with the appearance of the ARRL on 17 for contest activity is a little more subtle because of the high visibility of the club. Again please re-read my original Article post for why I think this is so.
The Dx-pediditons on the WARC bands are also problematical. Several well know DXers, that should have known better, have run very wide split operations on 17 and tore up the entire phone portion of the band for several days in a row. This is of course, rude operation and not good at all, but it was on for a couple of days (not 12!) and they were more or less "lone guns" not representing the likes of the NCCC or the ARRL, and that makes somewhat of a difference in my way of thinking. I have emailed some of them about those operations, and believe me, I wasn't the only one who noticed.
As to people saying I have issues with the ARRL and that I am not a contester, I repeat again (I have mentioned this before) I am a dues paying member for 15 years, I have no issues relevant here other than the topic of this thread. It is a narrow topic in focus, and I do not see why everyone is trying to blurr it into issues about other areas that the ARRL is active in. We are talking here, in this thread, about just what the topic tagliner on eHam has called the thread. To rephrase it in the nature of a question the issue becomes. "Do you agree that the ARRL showed Poor Judgement in the /135 Event by putting it on non contest areas of the Ham Bands?' Of course the answer is not necessarly a simple yes or no, but then again the answer has not much to do with other (important in their own right) ARRL issues.
To those that try to respond to the topic question by saying "oh yeah he's one of those non contester types" . You can log onto the NCCC web and look for my call in last years CQP. I won top points for Fresno County. Again, please re-read my original post. It was out of concern for the continuation of valid, responsibly run contests that I was very concerned about the "back-lash" from ARRL operation on the WARC Bands. Again details are explained in the original post.
Even if I was a non contester, and even if I hated contesters to the bone, what difference does that really make? The topic of the thread is the topic. The stripes of the submitter is irrelevant to the discussion. Even if the submitter (me) was from Mars and had little green pointy ears, what difference does it make? Just forget about me, and lets hear responses to the subject at hand.
73s -Dan K6KDK
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement supports ARRL boycott
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by W9WHE-II on October 8, 2004
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Jim:
If there is no "agreement" to keep how each director voted a "secret" WHY NOT JUST TELL US HOW EACH DIRECTOR VOTED?
COME ON JIM.....HERE IS ARRL'S CHANCE TO CLEAR THE AIR. TELL US WHICH DIRECTORS VOTED FOR THE "DUMBING DOWN PROPOSAL. Or is there some reason that you can't tell us?
W9WHE
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement supports ARRL boycott
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by W5JBP on October 8, 2004
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John, the majority of votes are voice votes. The only recorded ones are those that change the by-laws. Why don't you just get on the phone and ask them? Oh, please answer my five questions.
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by K8NQC on October 8, 2004
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Sorry Dan,
I don't see the /135 at all like a contest. I think that it encourages the kind of operation that hams enjoyed for decades where one makes many contacts with new stations. I think this is infinitely better than the daily drivel on the ham bands where most operation is so warmed over that stations may as well listen to recordings of yesterdays transmissions with the "same old/ same old." My thanks to our league.
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by W2MC on October 11, 2004
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Hey Dan!
JOTA is on thiscoming weekend.
They have the audacity to suggest operating frequencies that include the warc bands!
Even have a patch for those who participate...
I'll bet they even give the patch for 2 meter repeater contacts.
Jon
W2MC
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Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N1KHB on October 31, 2004
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To those who called the "/135" event a contest - it wasn't classified as a contest per se as I recall. Just an activity builder and a little recognition for the qualified /135ers. This sort of thing is not new and has been done in the past. Those who participated as qualified suffix users and those who made QSO's with them all had a nice time. And it was all very casual - none of the contest style helter-skelter. And by the way, the suffix events have never been so active as to cause any problems in the two that I have participated in.
Joe N1KHB
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RE: Poor ARRL Judgement on /135 Event
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by N1KHB on October 31, 2004
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Net Managers, EC's and the whole host of other ARRL appointments are just that! It's all part of the ARRL Field Organization. If you want to be a Sears salesperson, you have to work at Sears. If you want to have a position in Wal-Mart then join THAT organization! If you'd like to create a titled position in your own organization, you can even do that! Those who do serve in the ARRL Field Organization do so proudly, professionally, efficiently, and selflessly and do so for the benefit of ALL hams. And they do all of this as well as they do because of the fine support and leadership that ARRL provides. Seems to me that you've alienated yourself by placing yourself on the outside looking in to where the action is actually happening and then trying to blame others for your decision.
Joe N1KHB
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