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1-10 of 29 messages
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Submitting Contest Logs as Late as Possible
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by AI8P on February 7, 2009
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All,
I have just read a big discussion over on contesting.com about people who submit contest logs right at the deadline. The universal sentiment seems to be that people are using this time to CHEAT on their logs by whatever means they can devise.
I have a shocking revelation for contesting.com - the reason that most of the contesters that I know turn their logs in at the last minute is the same reason that they never post their scores on 3830 until after the deadline is past, and they never upload to LOTW until the deadline is over - they think other people will find out what their score and then the other people will adjust their log to a slightly higher score and steal the win from them. By not releasing their score until right before the deadline for log submittals, they make it more difficult for cheaters to know how much cheating they need to win.
So, although a bunch of people seem to think that late logs are a sign of cheating (they even want the time of log submission to be published, so they can identify the undesireable element), actually, I think most submittals "just before the deadline" are by people who don't cheat and are working to make it harder for others to cheat.
The interesting fact I learned on contesting.com is that the log checking is well underway by the deadline, and the log checkers job is made considerably harder by people waiting until the last minute to submit. I regret that, but as long as some people are suspicious of the integrity of the system, and the system includes the log checkers, then people are going to continue to submit their logs at the last possible minute in order to keep others from knowing their score and being tempted to cheat to beat them.
So I am pretty new to contesting and was surprised to hear this pretty universal sentiment that logs should be submitted only at the last possible hour to prevent others from gaining an advantage. What say you more experienced contesters - over the top paranoia, or legitimate concern?
de Dennis AI8P
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RE: Submitting Contest Logs as Late as Possible
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by KB3LIX on February 7, 2009
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Frankly,
I could care less why someone else does something.
I for one, submit my logs as soon as possible after the end of any particular contest. I export the Cabrillo, open it for a quick eyeball (looking for dumb-ass mistakes, like an "O" for a Zero, an "I"
for a One, etc) and ship it off once the quick look is complete.
I'm working the XE RTTY contest this evening, and once it is over at 1800z tomorrow, it will be sent by 1830z.
That way I know it is submitted and I can move onto the next exercise.
It is just not worth worrying about how or why someone else does things.
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RE: Submitting Contest Logs as Late as Possible
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by N0UY on February 8, 2009
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I too submit my logs as soon as possible. Sometimes mistakes and all. If someone has to cheat to fill there needs than I feel sorry for people around them. Must be tough to live with.
ray
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RE: Submitting Contest Logs as Late as Possible
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by AI8P on February 9, 2009
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All,
At least one contest team that I am very familiar with and that uses this strategy is a world record setting team. So they are not concerned with getting bumped from 222nd to 223rd place in a contest - they are concerned about someone getting an unfair advantage at the very top of the heap. They are very capable, but they don't set a world record every time out. In those instances, there is concern that someone would be able to manipulate their logs to edge them out for the win. Certainly if it's possible to get LOTW confirmations before the contest deadline, a very clever person could use that to optimize their logs. Also, if a team posted their claimed score to a reflector, other teams would have a target that they would need to reach with their "log modifications" to get the win.
I was hoping that some contest gurus would have some comments about what precautions are taken during log checking, etc, to reduce this and some ideas about whether this is worthwhile.
This was mostly a counter-argument to the thread that claimed that last minute submitters are obviously cheaters.
I think at the very highest levels of competition, there is no sport that is free from the pressures to win that can lead people to unethical behavior. Defending against that seems like a reasonable thing to do.
de Dennis, AI8P
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RE: Submitting Contest Logs as Late as Possible
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by K8GU on February 13, 2009
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The reason a big deal is being made over this is that nobody has money to spend on upgrading their stations and there are no sunspots.
Who's cheating and how? Without data, discussions of cheating in contesting all come around to inspecific allegations. That's not to say that people don't cheat; but, I guess I'm not too concerned until some compelling evidence is presented.
Have a look at the SO2R signatures study at this link...this kind of evidence is compelling to me:
http://www.radiosport.ca/rsrp/
To sum up, I wouldn't worry too much about what I read on CQ-Contest about cheating. People cheat on all kinds of things...school, spouses, taxes, etc, and sometimes they get caught, sometimes they don't. Sometimes their peers know and filter the results mentally if they have suspicions. I think that a shorter log deadline producing faster results turn-around would be a more compelling reason than to reduce cheating. But, that's just me...
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RE: Submitting Contest Logs as Late as Possible
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by W3TUA on February 19, 2009
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If it paid big money to contest then it might make for a hill of beans as to when your score is submitted.
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RE: Submitting Contest Logs as Late as Possible
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by KB9CRY on February 20, 2009
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The universal sentiment seems to be that people are using this time to CHEAT on their logs by whatever means they can devise.
Says who? Are you just trolling?
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RE: Submitting Contest Logs as Late as Possible
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by N3PRZ on February 22, 2009
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I say any and all little contesters that are sick of the unfair balance should delete their QSO from their logs so that it will cast doubt at the reviewers end if those big guns were really making the contacts they said they did.
Bottom line, yes, many contesters cheat...a lot of them. But the ones that are honest know it. I for one don't even submit a score....I'm not in it to prove myself to anyone. I do it for the fun, excitement, and the video I produce afterwards.
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RE: Submitting Contest Logs as Late as Possible
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by N3QE on February 23, 2009
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I don't get the "by not releasing their score until right before the deadline" part of the scheme.
When you send your Cabrillo log in, you can put any number in for the claimed score, or not include it at all. It doesn't make any difference at all outside the ego boost you may or may not get from seeing it, because it means nothing compared to the final checked score.
If you are implying that the log checkers are releasing logs to the competition before the deadline and before full checking, then you believe that the checkers are corrupt anyway.
Tim.
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